The music landscape has changed a lot since the turn of the 21st century. Not just styles, but how we consume music. Nothing illustrates that better than the rise of the indie music scene.

In his new book Such Great Heights: The Complete Cultural History of the Indie Rock Explosion, Stereogum managing editor Chris DeVille looks at how changes to TV, the internet, and the record industry fueled the rise in early ’00s indie music.

DeVille talks with WDET’s Russ McNamara. Click on the link to listen or read selected excepts below. 

The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.

RM: So why write this book?

DeVille: There’s many different sort of through lines that are being traced here. One of them is technology. It’s a subject that I think is really complex and really fascinating, and it involves a lot of my favorite music ever.

This stuff that has been kind of chronicled and debated online for years in blog posts and social media posts and a lot of the documentation of it is starting to disappear, because websites just go offline, or people delete their social media accounts. And so I wanted to create a little bit more permanent record of some of these things that happened—some of the ways that these bands broke through, some of the conversations that were being had around this music.

One reviewer compared it to like a yearbook that you look back at and you get some fond memories, and you get some cringe, but yeah, it’s kind of like a history of my listening as an adult.

Russ McNamara, WDET: In the book, you mention the TV show ‘The OC’ which was a popular teen soap opera in the early ’00s. How much did that show’s soundtrack play into the rise in indie rock?

Chris DeVille, author of “Such Great Heights”: I was surprised as I was writing the book, how much it became like a shadow history of the evolution of the Internet over the last couple of decades. And you know The OC thing, it’s like they’re putting these bands in front of a much bigger audience. Like Death Cab for Cutie is like a fairly obscure band at the time, and then this character on this popular teen show is like making his whole personality that he loves Death Cab for Cutie.

It’s like giant platform, but then they lose cool points with some people, as you know, sort of a more norm-y audience discovers this band, but it’s definitely, there’s no doubt that it was a huge like funnel, bringing a bunch of bands to a much broader audience

RM: What about the added accessibility of file sharing sites like Limewire and Napster?

CD: Whatever platform you were using to pirate music I think contributed to the accessibility of stuff. Stuff could blow up, even if it didn’t fit into a particular radio format, or it wasn’t getting past the MTV gatekeepers. It didn’t have to fit into any existing niche or existing format to blow up. It could just catch fire and go viral on these file sharing servers.

I mean, the same thing was still true when iTunes came in and kind of formalized and commercialized the process. You could still have a song that people would download it like crazy.

RM: Which indie bands benefitted the most from this setup in the early 00’s?

CD: Arcade Fire was definitely the biggest. The other dimension that I talk a lot about in the book, is Pitchfork. And just like the power that Pitchfork had to make or break someone’s career. If they gave something a 10.0 people were just going to jump on it and worship it. And if they kind of talked smack about a particular band or completely panned a band, then there were instances where that basically ended someone’s commercial prospects. And so like Arcade Fire were like the perfect storm.

RM: So where is indie rock at now? Is it dead? Does the genre really mean anything anymore?

CD: Over time, indie became like more of a genre, and then the genre itself started to change. But I think what we saw happen in the 2010s is sort of like the indie goes pop thing. It was like a bubble, and it really did pop. We still have these sort of like boutique pop stars like Clairo.

We had artists that came out of the indie world become pop stars of a sort because of stuff like Tiktok. Like Mitski is a good example of that where she’s coming from, from the indie rock infrastructure, and she is making music that jumps across genres a little bit.

There’s a hunger for bands that have a little bit more of an edge to them, that are a little bit less smooth, a little bit willing to be weird or noisy. That’s what you see with a lot of the biggest indie bands today – ones that have gone against that sort of, like Spotify-friendly, passive-listening experience. There’s now a hunger for music that’s a bit more abrasive, something that will jolt people out of their stupor.

Music wants to evolve. It wants to find new audiences. And so the whole idea of like, gatekeeping and having the right audience versus the wrong audience, like, that’s something that factors into the book too.

Over the holidays…we’re sharing some of the stories Detroit Evening Report hosts produced for the radio. Today…we hear a story from Nargis Rahman.

The state health department hoped to register 500 doulas in its doula registry by 2028. This fall, it had more than a thousand. That includes doulas across the state with various specialties and most are able to accept payment through Medicaid.

Nargis spoke to Dawn Shanafelt the Director of Maternal and Infant Health for the Department of Health and Human Services about the registry and efforts to export birthing assistance services in Michigan.

Outro: This is just part of Nargis Rahman’s interview with Dawn Shanafelt from the Department of Health and Human Services. You can her the full story at wdet.org.

The city’s 30 foot tall Kwanzaa Kinara join Detroit’s official Hannukah Menorah and Christmas tree in Campus Martius Friday, Dec. 26. This first day of Kwanzaa celebrates the principle Umoja or Unity.

If you missed the City’s Kinara lighting, there are Kwanzaa celebrations throughout the city until the holiday ends on New Year’s Day. The Redford Branch of the Detroit Public Library has festivities tomorrow, including arts & crafts and African dance and drumming.

For more information visit detroitpubliclibrary.org/events.

The Charles H Wright Museum of African American History will host Kwanzaa events through Monday. Festivities include performances, speakers, family-friendly activities, a vendor marketplace and candle lightings.

Each day’s schedule is a little different. Visit thewright.com/events/kwanzaa for more information.

Source Booksellers is hosting a virtual celebration of cooperative economics on the 29th with author Ben Passmore, who will talk about his book “Black Arms to Hold You Up: A History of Black Resistance.”

The event is at 5pm. To register look for Source Booksellers on Eventbrite.

Listen to the latest episode of the “Detroit Evening Report” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, NPR.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

An area of very old trees at Independence Oaks County Park has been recognized as part of a national network of old-growth forests, drawing attention to both rare natural features and thousands of years of human history tied to the land.

Carol Bacak-Egbo is an Oakland County Parks historian. She says the newly designated old-growth forest lies within a landscape shaped by Indigenous peoples for 5,000 to 6,000 years. The park sits near historic Native American trail routes, and contains the headwaters of the Clinton River, once a major travel route for the Anishinaabe across what is now southeast Michigan.

“This history doesn’t start with log cabins and sawmills,” Bacak-Egbo says. “People lived with and cared for this land long before Europeans arrived.”

Artifacts indicate the area was likely used as seasonal camps rather than permanent villages. The park also contains one of only two remaining wild rice beds in southeast Michigan, a culturally and spiritually significant food source for the Anishinaabe.

The forest largely escaped widespread logging and farming in the 19th century, almost by accident.

In the early 1900s, a wealthy Detroit businessman purchased land around Crooked Lake but left it undeveloped. Later owners also did not farm the southern portion of the property, allowing the old-growth trees to remain intact.

Park naturalist Kegan Schildberg says the designation supports efforts to protect remaining natural areas in Oakland County, which has developed rapidly during the last century.

Bacak-Egbo encourages visitors to view parks as places where natural and human history intersect.

“When people walk these trails, they aren’t just connecting with nature,” says Bacak-Egbo.  “They are walking through the same forest people walked through hundreds and even thousands of years ago.”

This story is part of WDET’s ongoing series, The Detroit Tree Canopy Project.

Detroit Public Schools officials want Immigration and Customs Enforcement to release four high school students the government is holding, including a star baseball player at Western International High School.

Agents arrested Santiago Jesus Zamora Perez and his mother last weekend. Their lawyer says ICE is holding them in Texas.

At a school board meeting Tuesday, students and teachers described a climate of fear at the school in Detroit’s Mexicantown neighborhood.

Superintendent Nikolai Vitti says he and the school board will write a letter to ICE asking them to release the students it detained. 

Additional headlines from Thursday, December 11, 2025

Kronk Gym reopens

Detroit’s Kronk Gym officially reopened this month in the old rec center where Joe Luis trained. It’s now in the recently renovated Brewster-Wheeler recreation center.

Kronk Gym was Founded by Emanuel Steward and trained dozens of world boxing champions including Thomas Hearns and Lennox Lewis. 

Kronk Gym memberships range from $90 to $129 a month, with training and HIIT classes, or $35 a month for youth. 

Human Rights Day march

The social justice group CodePink Detroit will join a coalition of grassroots organizations for a Human Rights Day march this Saturday starting at Hart Plaza.

The groups are calling for an end to the genocide in Gaza and Military aid to Israel, abolishing ICE and ending National Guard presence in some U.S. Cities. The march begins at 2:00pm.

For more information visit codepink.org/detroit1213. 

Dearborn Heights tree lighting saved by local businessman

Dearborn Heights came close to canceling it’s annual tree lighting ceremony this year but a local business man saved the day.

City officials had ordered an artificial tree from China but the shipment ran into serious delays. The city decided to try to find a replacement tree, and businessman Sam Hussein helped pay for it. Hussein told Channel 7 he felt it was the right thing to do and was a great way to give back to his community.

The tree lighting ceremony will take place Friday at 6:30 p.m. outside of the Dearborn Heights City Hall. 

Season of Soul

The Charles H Wright Museum’s Season of Soul is back! The daylong event is Sunday Dec. 14 starting at 10 a.m. The event falls on Second Sunday.

The museum offers free admission on the second Sunday of every month. Activities include morning yoga, photos with Black Santa and Mrs. Claus, and a holiday silent disco.

For more information, check out the events page on the museum’s website at thewright.org. 

Listen to the latest episode of the “Detroit Evening Report” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, NPR.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan gave his exit interview at the Detroit Economic Club Monday.

He says he doesn’t plan to align himself with either party’s congressional races during his campaign for governor in 2026. Duggan was a lifelong Democrat until he decided to run for Whitmer’s seat. He says he’s not worried about how Michiganders vote in the U.S. House races.

“I am going to work with the people in both parties to get results that won’t get reversed every two years as the state flips back and forth. I’m going to try to do what I did in Detroit, convince people that actually solving problems is better politics than tearing each other down.”

Duggan says he plans to run his campaign for governor just like he ran his campaign for mayor—by meeting with voters directly.

His term as mayor ends in January. 

Additional headlines from Tuesday, December 9, 2025

Mayor-elect Sheffield gets married

Detroit Mayor-elect Mary Sheffield got married over the weekend. Her transition team confirmed social media chatter, saying she and Ricke Jackson, Jr. tied the knot in a private ceremony at The Godfrey Hotel on Sunday.

Jackson works for the Community Foundation for Southeast Michigan. He runs a youth sports program. 

Menorah in the D

Hanukkah starts Sunday and that means Menorah in the D! This will be the 15^th annual lighting of the 26 foot menorah. The event begins at 4:30 p.m. with the menorah lighting at 5:30 p.m.

There will be musical performances, strolling street performers, the Detroit Pistons Extreme Team, a chance to take photos with the Chanukah Mensch and Dreidel Man & the dancing Dreidels, and free soup and hot chocolate.

Pontiac welcomes new businesses

The City of Pontiac will celebrate several new additions to its downtown business community tomorrow with a “mass ribbon cutting.”

Eight new businesses will be welcomed to North Saginaw Street with ceremonies starting between noon and 4:00 p.m. Several of the new offices are opening in the building at 91 North Saginaw Street, including an emergency health training services organization, a salon, and a multicultural community center.

At 4:30 p.m. there will be a celebration of the one year anniversary of interior design firm Designed Mindfully. 

Free admission to history museums

Admission to the Dossin Great Lakes Museum and the Detroit Historical Museum is free Sunday, Dec. 14 and Dec. 21 this month.

The Dossin on Belle Isle highlights the maritime history of Michigan and the U.S. The Detroit Historical Museum is focused on the comprehensive history of Detroit.

You can find information about exhibits at both museums at detroithistorical.org.

Listen to the latest episode of the “Detroit Evening Report” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, NPR.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Listen to The Metro weekdays from 10 a.m. to noon ET on 101.9 FM and streaming on demand.

Subscribe to The Metro on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, NPR.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

More stories from The Metro

The Detroit Red Wings have a long, gritty history that mirrors the city it calls home. To celebrate and commiserate the last 100 years, a new exhibition is on display at the Detroit Historical Museum. 

Detroit Red Wings at 100 will have a unique array of artifacts on display that capture the franchise from 1926 to today. The exhibition will be on display through 2026.

Jeremy Dimick is the lead curator at Detroit Historical Museum. Marcel Parent is the Director of Curation & Collections at Ilitch Holdings. Both joined The Metro to talk more about the exhibit and Detroit Red Wings history. 

Listen to The Metro weekdays from 10 a.m. to noon ET on 101.9 FM and streaming on demand.

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Evidence of colonization is embedded in the United States government. Through the Bureau of Indian Affairs, or the U.S. territories that are governed by colonial administration models, like Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

The place we now call Detroit, or, Waawiyatanong, the ancestral and contemporary homeland of the Three Fires Confederacy, has a unique place in United States’ colonial history.

The people of the Three Fires Confederacy—the Ojibway, Ottawa and Potawatomi nations, or collectively Anishinaabe people, were subjects of colonialism, violence and displacement. First by European settlers, then by the United States government. That process was carried out and documented by bureaucratic process, what scholars call colonial administration.

Maggie Blackhawk is the Moses H. Grossman professor of law at the NYU law school. She’s an expert in colonial administration, law, and history.

She spoke to Metro producer David Leins about what we can learn today from the bureaucratic records of the past to better understand colonialism in the U.S. and Michigan.

Subscribe to The Metro on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, NPR.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Listen to The Metro weekdays from 10 a.m. to noon ET on 101.9 FM and streaming on demand.

More stories from The Metro