This summer, after more than five years, Russia finally released Michigan native Paul Whelan in one of the largest prisoner exchanges since the height of the Cold War.

Whelan was serving time in a Russian labor camp on bogus espionage charges.

President Biden personally greeted Whelan on the tarmac when his flight arrived back in the U.S. And Congress is working to adopt new laws to help those like him who are wrongfully detained by foreign nations.

But Whelan says his return to American soil is proving much more difficult than he anticipated.

I spoke with Whelan about his time in Russia and experience with reintegrating to life back in the U.S. for over an hour at WDET Studios.

Use the media player above to listen to the full interview, or hear highlights from the interview — which aired in two segments on WDET — below.

Listen: Paul Whelan on his struggles since arriving home from Russian labor camp

Responses have been edited for clarity and length.

Paul Whelan: Once you’re home, you’re actually on your own. The attention turns to the next guy that’s still locked up somewhere abroad. The state and federal benefits and programs generally don’t apply to people that came back from a hostage situation. Even getting a driver’s license or professional licenses, renewing things that should just be pro forma, it’s a problem any time you’re asked about an arrest or a criminal record on an application. In my case, I was arrested and convicted and imprisoned, but it was wrongful. So one of the provisions actually in the new law is a certificate from the president that explains that the arrest, conviction and imprisonment of a former hostage were invalid. On a few occasions I had to ask people to put my name in Google and read the media to understand the situation completely, because I was arrested and convicted and imprisoned for a fake espionage case. As soon as you get into that sort of thing, people just don’t get it. They start thinking this can’t be real.

On dealing with customs officials:

I applied for a renewal of my global entry card, which comes from U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, I had a hard time with them because they kept focusing on the fact that I was arrested and imprisoned overseas. And I said, “Yeah, and look at the pictures of President Biden meeting me at Andrews Air Force Base when I came back.” It took a little while for them to process the fact that my case wasn’t real and that there was some notoriety around it.

On his struggles obtaining state unemployment or insurance benefits:

I don’t qualify for unemployment. Because the laws are written so specifically that my situation falls outside the cookie cutter that they use. You have to have worked for, I think, 20 weeks before you apply. Well, I was working, but I was working in a Russian labor camp. And that apparently doesn’t count.

I had applied for medical care [through Medicaid] and I had a letter back saying that I didn’t qualify because I wasn’t a U.S. citizen. This is a letter that’s gone all over the Michigan and federal congresses. It makes you scratch your head, to be quite honest. I called and I said this is a mistake. And they said I could appeal. In six to eight weeks, maybe there might be a determination for you. And I said, “You could just Google my name right now and understand the story.” But they said once you’ve applied and you’ve been denied, you have to go through the appeal process.

You get stuck in this bureaucratic quagmire. That’s the unfortunate thing because it should be quite easy, especially for someone in my case, and I’m finding that it just isn’t.

“Especially in my situation — where I was only held because I was an American citizen — the American government needs to have more in place so when people like me come home, there’s more lined up to help with the reintegration.”

– Paul Whelan

On how he’s living now and support he’s received:

There are some private people that are helping me. I have a GoFundMe account. The Detroit area auto dealers provided a leased vehicle for me, which was really great. There are some private practitioners that are supporting me with medical and dental care and whatnot. Really it’s the kindness of strangers and the support from the community at this point that’s helping me out. And I really appreciate that. But I also think that, especially in my situation, where I was only held because I was an American citizen, that the American government needs to have more in place so when people like me come home, there’s more lined up to help with the reintegration.

On losing his employment while held in Russia:

I was quite disappointed with my employer. I was the director of global security for BorgWarner. As soon as I was abducted by the Russians, they lawyered up. They didn’t want to cooperate with the State Department or the FBI. They didn’t want to cooperate with my family. They did pay me for the first year that I was gone, but they cut my medical insurance at a crucial time. I had a hernia that needed surgery. Because they took that option of insurance away and I was unemployed, I didn’t have the means to pay for a private operation. I basically had to wait because the Russians wouldn’t pay for it either, until the hernia became an emergency situation. One of the most disturbing aspects is that while I was sitting in prison, they were still doing business in Russia and they brought in a lot of money while I was incarcerated. Since I’ve been home I haven’t heard anything from them. Friends and supporters of mine have reached out to them and they’re just not, they’re not talking.

Whelan said the horrid conditions of the Russian labor camp where he was imprisoned remains burned into his mind. His frustration grew in prison as Russia traded other Americans while he remained incarcerated.

The U.S. Attorney General, for one, argued against doing any prisoner swaps.

But Whelan, a citizen of four different countries because of his parents and where they lived, says he was aware the U.S. government was still trying to craft a deal to get him home.

Listen: Whelan describes conditions in Russian labor camp

Responses have been edited for clarity and length.

Paul Whelan: I knew there were negotiations underway to get me home. I had several calls with U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken from prison. I spoke to Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs Roger Carstens on a fairly regular basis and his staff as well. We had illegal burner phones. We would use cigarettes to bribe the guards and buy burner phones. And I would call people in the governments in London and Ottawa as well. So I was fairly up to date on what was happening — not the details — but the fact that there were negotiations. There were conversations happening.

“In Russian prison there is no medical care. It’s up to you as an individual to take care of yourself.”

– Paul Whelan

On the poor conditions in the Russian labor camp:

In Russian prison there is no medical care. It’s up to you as an individual to take care of yourself. Your family, friends, people like that, can supply over-the-counter medications. So my consulates were sending that sort of thing in to me. My parents were actually ordering a lot of it on Amazon and it would go through the diplomatic pouch in D.C. to Moscow, and then from the consulates to me. Ibuprofen, acetaminophen, TheraFlu, even Band Aids, all sorts of things. At first my family sent a small amount just for me. But it became apparent that my friends in the camp needed the same sort of thing. So my parents just started sending more. After a while I had a bit of a pharmacy we were able to stay in pretty good shape. It’s an odd environment, because it’s extremely dirty. It’s unsanitary. When we had water, it was cold water. It’s not conducive to what we think of as proper hygiene, having clean surfaces, disinfecting wipes. The Russians just don’t believe in those sorts of things. Since Soviet times, the Russian outlook on imprisonment is work. I was at a labor camp for the last four years and it was just like the gulags of the old days, the salt mines and factories.

On maintaining a positive outlook while imprisoned:

It’s tough. From Day One, I sung the four national anthems of my countries when I got up in the morning. And then at the labor camp, some of my friends would sing theirs as well. So it was kind of comical. We’d always say that every day is a new day. And when things weren’t going right, we’d say every hour is a new hour. I did 30 days in solitary confinement. The warden wasn’t happy with me, and I wasn’t happy with him. It stemmed from the fact that there’s no medical care in the camps and I was arguing with the warden about that. So he threw me in solitary for 30 days. When I was there I said, okay, I’m here for however long, this is my home until I get out. So instead of kicking the doors and trying to break windows and yelling and screaming and causing problems, I cleaned it up. I made it, as best I could, a situation I could deal with, and rode it out. Just after getting out of solitary, we were able to have that warden arrested and put in jail himself, as well as the deputy warden, because of the fraud and corruption in the prison.

On remaining in contact with the inmates still held by Russia:

I’m in contact with people from the camps as well as their families. The corruption in the Russian camp is just part of their society, so having burner phones available is fairly normal there. On one hand, you’d have a warden putting people in solitary for disobeying the rules. But on the other hand, the deputy warden is handing out cell phones to people that can pay for them. The guards too. One guard is selling cell phones and another guard is running around the barracks trying to collect the phones. With the inmates, we discuss world events, what’s happening with the war in Ukraine. That touches on everyone’s lives in the Russian prison because the Russian army has been taking prisoners to prop up their losing venture. People speak about coming to America, coming to Canada, how they could emigrate. We practice speaking English. And, keeping the sanctions in mind, which do make things difficult, I have family and friends in other countries that are helping to send medications and things into Russia now to go to my friends in the camps. That’s helping, especially during this winter season, keeping them healthy.

On sleep deprivation in the labor camp:

The last four years, every night, the guards would come and every two hours they’d wake me up. They’d shine a light in my face, take my photo, to prove that I hadn’t escaped. The Russians said that I was high value and that I was an escape risk. The camp that I was in, I used to call it Camp Lost in the Woods because it was way out in the middle of nowhere. If I had gotten out, which wouldn’t have been hard to do actually, I would have been in the in forests. There are bears and wolves and things running around. If I had survived them, the area of the country is just all prison camps and everyone who lives around there works in some manner for the prison service. So anybody I would have run into would have known that they were looking for an escaped prisoner, and I wouldn’t have gotten very far.

Listen to the full conversation with Whelan at the top of this article.