Tens of thousands of immigrant children — including hundreds in Michigan — came to the U.S. fleeing gangs, human trafficking or trying to re-unite with family members.

Nonprofit groups supplied attorneys to help keep the children here, some so young they need a teddy bear to calm them when they testify in immigration court.

But the Trump administration is halting federal funding for the effort, apparently defying the courts to do so.

That’s hitting the nonprofit Michigan Immigrant Rights Center (MIRC) hard.

Christine Sauve, manager of policy and communication for MIRC, told WDET the group has to make severe cuts in key areas.

Listen: Michigan Immigrant Rights group shares repercussions of federal funding cuts

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Christine Sauve, Michigan Immigrant Rights Center:  We did lose federal funding for two of our programs. One is the help desk in immigration court. We had previously received a stop-work order on that program. There was a court order for us to return to services and then just last week, the federal government terminated the contract completely. There is continued litigation on that. However, the funding has been terminated for now. The other program is our unaccompanied children’s program. We provide legal representation and “Know your rights” information to all immigrant children in Michigan in court proceedings. Unfortunately, that program had received a stop-work order. Then it was lifted too. But the contract was terminated at the end of March. There was litigation filed in that case as well. And unfortunately, to date, the Trump administration has not followed the court’s orders. Payment has not been made for those services, and due to the financial pressure from the loss of both of those contracts, we’ve had to lay off 72 staff in our five offices across the state. We will still have our small help desk team, five individuals operating outside of the Detroit immigration court. We have 49 staff remaining distributed in our five offices across the state.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: In terms of what the administration is supposed to do according to the courts, have they ordered them to fund you guys and they are simply not?

CS: In the unaccompanied children’s case, the hearings are ongoing. But after the last judge’s order to return to services, the government has not complied with those orders. There has been no payment and no communication with the contractor. We are a subcontractor for the services. There’s been no communication, no follow through, no intention shown to provide payment for the services. So without the federal funding coming in we were left with very difficult pressures to continue our services as best we can. What we do know is that under the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, a bipartisan act passed by Congress decades ago, it acknowledged the unique vulnerability of children and actually codified the federal government’s obligation and responsibilities to ensure that unaccompanied children have legal representation so they’re not facing that risk of deportation without due process, without a chance for a fair hearing in court.

“Most unaccompanied children are eligible for permanent status and other forms of relief under current U.S. law. But they can’t access that relief without an attorney to help make their case in court. It’s so heartbreaking because children just cannot meaningfully navigate immigration court alone. We don’t expect children to do that in any other court process in America.”

– Christine Sauve, Michigan Immigrant Rights Center

There was a recognition that it could not be a fair hearing if the child did not have an attorney or representation. Most unaccompanied children are eligible for permanent status and other forms of relief under current U.S. law. But they can’t access that relief without an attorney to help make their case in court. It’s so heartbreaking because children just cannot meaningfully navigate immigration court alone. We don’t expect children to do that in any other court process in America.

QK: At times some unaccompanied kids try to get a sponsor in the U.S., perhaps a family member, after they arrive here. There’s concerns from some sponsors now about doing that going forward, because some of their own personal information could be revealed that didn’t used to have to be. How is that process unfolding?

CS: The Trump administration had authorized information-sharing between agencies. There’s something known as the “foundational rule” for the unaccompanied children’s program. It previously stated that information about sponsors’ immigration status could not be shared with other federal agencies, in particular Immigration, Customs and Enforcement. This administration has changed course to permit sharing of sponsor immigration status with law enforcement, specifically for the purposes of achieving their goals of mass deportation. They are looking at all avenues to do so. And unfortunately, it affects some of the most vulnerable of our community members, the children who are placed in those homes. They’ve been placed with family or relatives that they know and trust. Removing the sponsor would affect the health and outcomes for the child as well. So that is challenging our work right now.

QK: With your current situation, while you still watch what’s going on with the litigation that’s underway, where do you guys go from here? How badly understaffed are you? Is it going to affect your mission tremendously as you go forward?

CS: The capacity will be lowered but we will not stop representing the children that we currently have in our caseload. We currently have 800 cases that are still proceeding. We’ll have a small team focusing on those cases for the next nine months to complete as many of them as we can. But unfortunately, we won’t be able to accept any new children’s cases for the foreseeable future. We have done a fair amount of fundraising. But there’s a reason that public funded services exist and it is because often other entities are unable to provide that level of funding. We have been very busy over the past couple of months reaching out to as many foundations and private donors as possible to raise the funds to have this small team continue over the next nine months. I don’t think with the current funding we have available at the moment we could continue that beyond nine months.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Ut elit tellus, luctus nec ullamcorper mattis, pulvinar dapibus leo.

Michigan Republican U.S. Rep. John James says he’s running for governor.

That leaves an open seat among the GOP’s very narrow majority in the U.S. House.

Several Democrats are already vying to fill that void in Michigan’s 10th Congressional District.

They include Pontiac Mayor Tim Greimel, a past Democratic leader in the Michigan state House who officially declared his candidacy for Congress on Thursday.

The long-time lawmaker told WDET he has spent his entire adult life working to help the “middle class.”

Listen: Tim Greimel on his Congressional campaign, being a ‘problem solver’

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Pontiac Mayor Tim Greimel: I’ve done it as a union-side labor lawyer and a civil rights attorney. I’ve done it as a school board member, county commissioner and as the State House Minority Leader. Working people have been hurting for years. They’ve been especially hurting from high inflation and now facing the economic chaos and uncertainty coming out of Washington. So now more than ever, we need fighters like me in Washington, D.C., and I’m prepared to stand up for everyday people and stand up against unelected billionaires like Elon Musk.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: You served before in the state Legislature, so you know how that kind of a body works. But you’re leaving as mayor of Pontiac. Is there anything that you can take from being mayor that you think would inform what you would do if, in fact, you were elected to Congress?

TG: Being a mayor is all about being a problem solver. And I’ve always been solution oriented in my approach to public policy issues. We’ve successfully reduced crime in Pontiac and improved public safety. We’ve created more housing opportunities and we’ve broken ground on hundreds of housing units. Those are the kinds of common sense approaches to policy that people all across this country want. When I was in the state legislature as the House Minority Leader, I successfully fought to expand Medicaid coverage to provide health insurance to over 600,000 Michiganders who otherwise would not have been able to access health care. We successfully fought and raised the minimum wage as well as indexing it to inflation here in the state. Again, those are the kinds of policies that truly make a positive difference in people’s day-to-day lives. That’s what residents want. They want solutions to the problems they face day-in and day-out. And those are the solutions that I’m going to bring to Washington, D.C.

QK: There’s always some political division, it seems. But nowadays it’s a divide that’s more like a chasm. If, in fact, you were in Congress, what are the major issues that you see facing people, specifically in the 10th Congressional district?

“This reckless approach to imposing tariffs on Canada has already idled auto plants, it’s already put people out of work. People want sensible economic policies that increase good paying jobs.”

–Pontiac Mayor Tim Greimel

TG: Most importantly, people want good paying jobs. They don’t want unelected billionaires like Elon Musk creating economic chaos. They also want sensible trade policies where we have targeted strategic tariffs against bad actors like China but where we don’t go after countries like Canada with which we have shared economic interests. This reckless approach to imposing tariffs on Canada has already idled auto plants, it’s already put people out of work. People want sensible economic policies that increase good paying jobs. Part of that is investing in education, because people won’t have the skills to get good paying jobs unless people have access to the education and training needed to fill those positions. So we’ve got to make sure that rather than cutting or eliminating the U.S. Department of Education, we’re actually investing more in education. People want to make sure that if they’re willing to work hard and play by the rules that they can have and keep a good paying job that supports their family. That’s why we need to increase the federal minimum wage and index it to inflation. And people want to make sure that they can still live the American dream of purchasing and owning their own house. That’s why bringing down the cost of housing and making sure that it is attainable, that people can have an affordable mortgage at a lower interest rate, is essential. I’m going to fight on all of those issues, as well as making sure that we’re protecting clean water. The 10th Congressional District has a long shoreline on Lake St Clair. It has a lot of great rivers and streams inland and people really enjoy boating and fishing. We’ve got to make sure that those resources and that opportunity to enjoy recreation on our waterways remains available to people in Macomb County.

QK: The current representative of the district, John James, is making a bid as a Republican for governor. But during the last couple of election cycles Democrats lost running against James, although it was in fairly close contests. Apart from the fact that James won’t be there now, why do you think your campaign would be different than the previous Democratic candidate?

TG: I’ve always run high energy campaigns where the focus is on talking to voters and meeting voters where they are. That’s going to be the kind of campaign that I’m running this time as well. We’ve always been focused on the issues that matter most to residents and voters. Those issues are economic issues, improving people’s economic well-being, expanding opportunity, making sure that everybody who’s willing to work hard and play by the rules can achieve the American dream. And that’s going to be the focus of our campaign and my work in Congress.

QK: It is a rough political climate where a lot of people are not getting along one way or the other. You see that almost every time someone looks or hears the news from Congress, in particular. Why would you want to get in the middle of all that? In some ways it sounds almost like a thankless task.

TG: Well, public service sometimes is thankless. But I didn’t get into public service to get thanked. I got into it to improve the quality of life and economic opportunity for the American people and especially people here in southeast Michigan. Now more than ever, especially because things are so polarized and so divisive, we need solution-oriented, proven leadership that has a track record of delivering positive results for everyday people.

President Donald Trump’s flurry of tariffs is already forcing changes in the auto industry.

Stellantis is temporarily stopping production at some factories in Windsor, Ontario and in Mexico while laying-off workers in Michigan and Indiana.

It’s also offering discount pricing for customers. So is Ford Motor Company.

Some foreign automakers vow not to raise their prices either, for now.

But financial experts still predict a big hike coming in the cost of a vehicle after a tariff on imported auto parts takes effect in May.

The upheaval concerns Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, who spent more than three decades in the car business.

Dingell told WDET that she believes tariffs can be useful, but Congress may still try to revoke Trump’s authority to levy them.

Listen: Dingell talks tariffs, unions, NAFTA and where Trump is going wrong

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

U.S. Rep. Debbie Dingell: I think tariffs are a tool in the toolbox so that we are competing on a level playing field with China, who subsidizes production, owns the companies and doesn’t pay a decent wage. But what’s been done the last couple of weeks has just created chaos. It’s impacting the economy. I’ve talked to multiple lawyers who are still trying to interpret what was announced for Canada and Mexico and the impact on the auto industry. We’ve seen what the market has done. We need an industrial policy that brings manufacturing back to this country. Not only do I want to see the auto plants here but we have a steel issue that’s a national security issue as much as it is an economic security issue. And when you talk about pharmaceuticals, 80% to 90% of the drugs that we need are made in China and India. We need to bring that production home. But we have to have an integrated policy that incentivizes that. And you can’t do it overnight. If everything goes totally right, and when is the last time anything went totally right, it takes 2.5 to 3 years to build a new plant. So I’m concerned about how this is being done. I will work with anyone to bring manufacturing back here, to have a level playing field, but you’ve got to do it in a way that doesn’t create chaos.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: Automakers often seem to treat the U.S., Mexico and Canada as one big country. They have parts go back and forth across the borders repeatedly. In your view, should the auto tariffs treat Canada and/or Mexico differently than they would China or some other country?

DD: I think NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was one of the worst pieces of trade legislation because it did take our plants away. Many of them were relocated to Mexico. They left cities devastated. And a Mexican worker is making $3 while a worker in this country is making $30 an hour. And I think that’s a fair wage. When the president was in his first term I worked with his administration when they renegotiated. They got rid of NAFTA. They negotiated the USMCA, the U.S., Mexico and Canada trade relationship. And the auto companies are operating under that agreement. I do believe that we need to renegotiate USMCA, because it allows China to put a plant in Mexico and then market it as a North America product.

QK: Some of the people who have praised tariffs as a good thing have been somewhat surprising to those that follow politics. For instance, the president of the United Auto Workers Union, Shawn Fain, was a pretty vocal critic of President Trump during the most recent campaign. But he has endorsed the new auto tariffs as a good way to try to keep jobs in the U.S. or increase U.S. manufacturing. Does it surprise you that organized labor would come out in that fashion?

DD: I think that organized labor is more where I am in that they think tariffs are a useful tool in the toolbox. There needs to be a strategy and people don’t understand what the strategy is. But I told people in 2016 Donald Trump was going to win, and everybody thought I was crazy — I wasn’t — because he understood how workers felt about seeing their jobs shipped overseas. How could they compete when there’s not a level playing field and workers were being paid such low wages in Mexico, they weren’t making a living wage. By the way, I think Canada and Mexico are two different countries and I think it’s time to treat them as such. Canada would never let China build a plant in Canada and market it as a North American vehicle. But I’m not surprised by union support for tariffs because workers are the ones who have felt the pain. But it’s the way this is being done. I go in the union halls and workers are glad to see somebody fighting for them. But they are also worried about increased costs. So it’s got to be done the right way, strategically. You can’t do it overnight and it can’t be done chaotically.

QK: Do you have any concerns that, as some analysts predict, tariffs overall could push the U.S. economy back into a recession?

DD: I think we have to be very careful. I think everybody’s concerned when you see what the market has done. And I want to see our economy strong, I want to see it thrive. I want to see jobs come back to this country. And I hear the economic concerns of workers who are worried about the grocery prices, worried about whether they can afford their home. And quite frankly, workers want to know their job is safe.

QK: The president had the power to start levying these tariffs because he declared a national economic emergency when he took office. Congress can revoke that authority. The U.S. Senate recently took what was in some ways a symbolic vote to do that, at least in regards to Canadian tariffs. But the House can’t really follow suit because of a procedural maneuver that was used by the speaker of the House. Is that kind of the end of Congress’ options regarding tariffs or is there any more that could be done?

DD: I think that you will be seeing further action in the House in the next couple of weeks to do something similar to what was done in the Senate. Stay tuned.

The heads of the Detroit Regional Chamber and the trade association MichAuto are just two of the many business leaders requesting a pause to tariffs.

They sent a letter last week asking the White House to avoid tariffs on auto parts and vehicles and instead renegotiate the free trade agreement between the U.S., Mexico and Canada (USMCA.)

The administration enacted the auto tariffs anyway.

Now MichAuto Executive Director Glenn Stevens Jr. says price hikes are both inevitable and potentially damaging to Michigan’s economy.

Listen: Auto advocates want Trump to hit the brakes on tariffs

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length. Listen to the full conversation above.

Glenn Stevens, Jr., MichAuto: (Interview edited for clarity.) When we look at the impact of the tariff stack that’s going on, and there are multiple tariffs that have been applied so far, we’re concerned about the rise in the input costs to the suppliers of all sizes, the vehicle manufacturers across Detroit and all of Michigan. The second thing we’re concerned about is how these costs stack up. The overall selling price of a new vehicle, which is already at a near record, is $49,000 a year. So any impact on that selling price, we’re concerned about what that does to market demand. It has a negative impact if that demand is not strong. And we really would like to see the USMCA trade agreement reopened, as is called for in 2026. But we hope that the president will continue to evaluate goods going between our three countries.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: The president has argued that these tariffs are a way to try to force, in effect, manufacturing back to the U.S. Do you see that as a possibility if these tariffs continue forward, or do you think they’re going to have some counterproductive effect?

GS: No one would argue, and we certainly wouldn’t, that increasing manufacturing in Detroit and Michigan in the United States is a bad thing. No one would argue that improving our border security against illegal drugs and illegal immigration is a bad thing. However, it takes significant time to make these changes, years, not months, in the case of moving assembly plants. So that’s one thing. The second thing is we have to remain globally competitive and we have a supply chain that already works between our three countries. Does it need to be improved? Yes, that’s why reopening and renegotiating the USMCA would be a good way to go. So there are some concerns, but there are opportunities. And yes, eventually over time, if those decisions are made, we could see increased production in the United States, which would not be a bad thing at all.

QK: Mexico and Canada and the U.S. have operated essentially like one big country for the auto industry. They regularly have parts going back and forth over the border. Now the president may not only be trying to force more manufacturing to the U.S., but he’s also causing some countries to levy reciprocal tariffs.

GS: In the case of Michigan and Ontario, we operate seamlessly. This is a 120-year-old industry between our two regions, Ontario and Michigan, let alone the whole Great Lakes region and really North America. Unraveling that supply chain is costly, disruptive and will cost jobs on both sides of the border. Again I stress that we would like to see the tool that we have at hand, the USMCA, to be reopened and renegotiated. And out of that can come more manufacturing, but it also can keep a trade block that works intact for the U.S. auto industry to be globally competitive.

QK: Do you see any upside in the near future in regards to these tariffs, whatever happens in the long run?

GS: I’m a pretty positive, upbeat, glass-half-full person. But there’s not a lot of positives and goods we’re seeing today. If I look at the stock market, at companies which are paralyzed and I look at us, really, in a trade war with our friends and neighbors literally across the Detroit River, I’m not seeing a lot positive in the short term. That’s pretty clear today.

QK: You and the president of the Detroit Regional Chamber recently sent a letter to the White House and other lawmakers arguing your point. If it falls on deaf ears, so to speak, what other recourse do you see that the auto industry might have to try to enact some changes to what’s currently in place?

GS: We’re going to keep communicating with the White House, with our congressional delegation. That letter was also sent to all the members, Republican and Democrat, in the Michigan federal delegation to Washington. We work closely with other companies, other organizations, other trade associations, and we’re all in this together to communicate the importance of the industry and its complexity. But if these tariffs continue, the industry is going to have to make some tough, long-term decisions. We’re going to have to help mitigate that and hopefully we don’t see employment loss, we don’t see companies leave, we don’t see companies financially under duress. I stressed before how important it is for Michigan and the entire region, which includes Ontario and our Great Lakes states and North America as a whole, to be globally competitive. We have a Chinese auto industry that did not exist just a few short years ago that is really expanding globally and is really competitive from a cost, quality and design and engineering standpoint. We can’t isolate ourselves from the world and ignore the fact that Chinese industry is growing. We have to be able to compete with it. And unraveling a trade block and supply chain that works very efficiently is not the direction we should be going in. We should be looking at how we can be more competitive?

QK: In your view, what would make it more competitive?

GS: We talk about this every day. Unfortunately, we had to take our eye off the ball a little bit the last couple months. But the industry is looking at how do we make our plants more efficient? How do we make our people more prepared for the digital skills needed? There will be more automation, but that’s not eliminating jobs as much as it is providing new opportunities for good jobs to interact and program and repair and maintain that automation. We have to look at how do we be more competitive with the technologies at hand, including things like AI? That’s what we want to focus on, that’s what we’re going to have to do together as a partnership between government, labor and industry. That’s really what we want to get back to.

One of the few issues that often bridges the political divide is concern over the condition of the nation’s roads, rails and other infrastructure.

Those worries extend to the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), which grades U.S. infrastructure every four years.

The group’s most recent report card gives the nation a mediocre “C.” It rates Michigan’s infrastructure as being slightly worse than that.

But ASCE’s chair of the infrastructure report card project, Darren Olson, told WDET both Michigan and the country as a whole have improved in at least one area.

Listen: Darren Olson on why ASCE gave US infrastructure a ‘C’ grade

This interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Darren Olson, ASCE: Our highest grade was for ports. They received a “B.” They were initially very much impacted by the pandemic. We can remember those situations where all the goods were bottled up at ports. Then they had a lot of private and public sector investment into the ports. And after that initial shock to the system, we saw a lot of improvement in the ability for our ports to take in and move goods at a level right now that is really helping our national economy.

As a state, Michigan received a “C-.“ Just a little bit below the national average. Roads in Michigan have always been a very hot button topic. But there has been some recent investments in that area as well, the Rebuilding Michigan Program, the Building Michigan Together plan. So there has been some investment set to help the roads, although that is still in the “D” range. One of the other ones that we see, which is consistent with ratings nationally, is the storm water grade. Michigan’s storm water grade is a “D.” Part of it is because Mother Nature is throwing at us storm events that most of our infrastructure isn’t designed for. I think a year or two ago, the Detroit airport flooded severely because four or five inches of rain came down pretty quickly.

Our storm water infrastructure just isn’t designed to handle some of these increasingly severe rainfall events. That’s one of the huge recommendations of our report card, to make our infrastructure more resilient. We don’t want to design our infrastructure for what we might expect today, let’s design it for what we’ll be expecting in 20, 30, 40 years from now. Infrastructure investment is such a long game that it really makes sense to design and build it accordingly.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News:  You gave Michigan’s road infrastructure a “D” grade. Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer ran on the slogan, “Just fix the damn roads.” So from what you’re finding, the roads are not exactly getting fixed the way one would hope?

DO: There’s certainly progress being made. But what we see a lot of times, and what people maybe don’t understand so much about infrastructure, is that these projects take a long time. Nationally, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act came out in 2021. And Michigan has had some pretty strong funding mechanisms for large scale infrastructure planning. But infrastructure takes a long time to go from planning to design and permitting to the construction process. So there is progress being made in Michigan on the roads. Unfortunately, after we’ve been underinvesting for decades, it’s going to take time, both in Michigan and nationally, to turn this around and bring them a grade they’re all proud of.

QK: Some of these projects require federal funding. The Trump administration has frozen or withdrawn funds for a variety of items. Is that affecting efforts to improve the nation’s infrastructure or, in your view, might it be likely to impact it in the future?

DO: Well, I can’t really comment on whether some of the funding will come to fruition or not. But what I can say is we have seen an improvement in our nation’s infrastructure over the past four years because of federal investment. We are urging our lawmakers to continue that level of investment. We’ve come from a “C-“ to a “C” nationally. It’s going to take us a long time to get to a level where we can give a grade that we’re all proud of. But a key to get there, after decades of underinvesting, is to continue to invest like we are now and increase funding where necessary. We’ve got a state and local and private sector role to play in this as well. And I think when we bring all of those stakeholders together to help fund our infrastructure, there is improvement.

QK: Beyond roads and bridges and the like, your group also examined the infrastructure surrounding school facilities. How are the schools faring there?

DO: Schools are a very tough infrastructure category to analyze because so much of that is funded at the local level. Sometimes there’s just not a whole lot of data on what the status is of that funding and what the needs are of the schools. Unfortunately, it’s kind of ironic that schools which issue grades also got one of our lowest grades, a “D+.” That’s something that we would hope can get turned around in the next four years.

QK: When you say “D+” does that mean there’s poor investment in school buildings themselves or the heating, air, cooling units, or all of the above?

DO: All the infrastructure associated with schools as a category gets a “D.” That really means that it’s in poor condition and at risk. In fact, poor infrastructure overall is costing American families $2,700 a year. That’s money that we spend because of extra time and traffic congestion, which I’m sure Michigan is familiar with. When we have to buy bottled water because of a water main break or maybe have to throw out all of our groceries in the refrigerator because the power goes out. If we just invest like we are now, we will be saving American families $700 of that every year. That’s money they can put back into buying goods and services. Manufacturing, which is something that Michigan really relies on for employment, becomes much more efficient when we have good infrastructure. Manufacturing needs water, it needs roads, it needs ports. When we invest in those we see improvements in the infrastructure and we see our economy working more efficiently.

President Trump is threatening to raise tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber to 27 percent as soon as this week.

The move could impact everything in the U.S. from lumber needed to build affordable housing to wood chips used to make toilet paper.

Trump says his administration would compensate by harvesting more trees from national forests, which includes several in Michigan.

But some experts say it’s not that simple.

The Michigan Sustainable Forestry Initiative’s Jesse Randall says the issue goes beyond how many trees are available in the state or the nation.

Listen: Trump tariffs on Canada lumber could chop U.S. wood supplies

Jesse Randall: Michigan sits kind of at the forefront of very high-valued timber. And we utilize it in a sustainable manner. I think the material that the president is looking at in terms of tariffs is really going to affect our partners in the Pacific Northwest and down South. I know of one Michigan producer who says they haven’t seen any major uptick because of these proposed tariffs yet.

I think tariffs are a double-edged sword. Our mills and our operators are constantly needing to procure and maintain equipment. So I think that will cost them more money, tariffs or anything that will shut down a supply coming in that is used for construction.

We’re really facing now the start of that spring building period. I think that will add extra pressure to it. And I think you might see, at least initially, some speculative up-buying where people are trying to lock in what they’re going to need for the near term, not knowing what the tariffs will do or if they will be in place for very long.

Some of these larger companies are diversified across the border. I do know that some shipments were held up, they cost a little bit more to get into the country. I believe that’s going to be a blip on the radar and it’ll work itself out.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: Why do you think it’ll be just a blip on the radar?

JR: I think our U.S. mills have already begun to adjust to the possibility. I think they’ve already started to look at their procurement side of the equation and say, “If tariffs do come in and we get raw material from across the border, where will we have to source that from instead? Who are our major players on the procurement side?” I think what the proposed tariff has done is really sped up those conversations inside U.S. producers. “Who are we going to have new contracts with? How flexible are those contracts to ramp up?”

Frankly, right now, I see us having a bigger problem than running out of material. We’re going to run out of Qualified Logging Professionals (QLPs) to harvest the material. Within this country, we have an aging demographic in the forest products industry. Not a lot of folks are going into that profession. It’s a lot like agriculture, it’s getting older and they’re becoming more mechanized. But there’s still a level of retirement that is not being replaced with new logging professionals.

What’s scary to me is if these mills immediately call for more material coming from our woods, which we do have in Michigan, they won’t have people to harvest that wood, they won’t have people to haul that wood. That’s what we’re faced with.

We have 1,000 QLPs. That’s not enough to meet the demand that these mills would have if they ran wide open seven days a week. They don’t have the manpower.

QK: One of the things the Trump administration argues in favor of tariffs is that they will cause production to be based more in the U.S. Are you concerned primarily that there is just not enough qualified professionals here at the moment in the lumber business? Or are there other factors you worry about, if it was going to be mainly a U.S.-based timber industry, as opposed to using lumber from Canada?

JR: The cost of entry into this. The equipment is incredibly expensive. Interest rates have risen to the point where the machinery has gotten out of direct reach for a lot of new people to get into. It’s a lot like agriculture. I would have loved as a young adult to have gotten into either forestry or agriculture. But you need to almost be born into an agricultural family that has an established business to be your own producer. It’s very hard for a new person to break in and pay for this equipment and make go of it.

Now, if there’s increased demand and there’s a lack of QLPs, supply and demand laws tell us that the price per unit goes up. Perhaps that will attract more new people to go out and get the loans to begin to start their own businesses.

But there’s another factor. We’ve also had a lot of natural disasters natiowide. And our Michigan QLPs and our trucking professionals are sought-after talent when natural disasters strike. We have a lot of QLPs and haulers that have been put under contract to go and respond to the storms down South and out in the central U.S.

QK: To get rid of fallen trees and the like?

JR: Correct. We saw a lot of that in North Carolina. And our QLPs had gotten these federal contracts to go out and really help those individual states after hurricanes and tornadoes. That all has to be cleaned up by somebody that knows what they’re doing, that has the right equipment. And those contracts aren’t one or two months. Those contracts are six to nine months. That effectively takes them out of Michigan for the better part of the harvest year. You don’t replace that equipment and that level of knowledge overnight. I can’t take a young person who is fresh out of high school or college and put them on a machine and have them be safe and productive. It takes years to develop those skills. And, right now, we have a loss of talent.

Using hostages as bargaining chips remains a favorite tactic of some nations and terrorist groups.

Negotiating their release is often tricky.

It took seven countries cooperating last summer for the U.S. and Russia to complete the largest prisoner swap since the Cold War.

Among those exchanged was 55-year-old former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan.

But since returning home, the Michigan native says he’s still felt trapped.

Only this time it’s in a web of governmental bureaucracy.

The long-delayed return 

Concerns about resuming life in the U.S. seemed very far away for Paul Whelan last August, when a swarm of media trained their cameras on the small plane delivering him home.

It had just touched down at Andrews Air Force Base near Washington, D.C. amid a small crowd where some had waited years for this moment.

Whelan was the first to emerge from the aircraft. Tall, light-haired, wearing glasses and the dirty clothing he had on when Russia first detained him years ago, which guards had stored away until now.

He steadied himself on the hand railings of the steps leading from the plane, weak from malnourishment after years in a Russian labor camp.

Then he snapped-off a crisp salute to the figure waiting for him.

It was then-President Joe Biden, who embraced Whelan. After several conversations between the two, in an impromptu moment, Biden removed his American flag lapel pin and handed it to the former U.S. Marine.

Announcers on CNN noted that Whelan waved to the crowd on the tarmac. And, they said, “America waved back.”

Imprisoned by the system

Whelan now says, in some ways, it was a wave goodbye.

“What we found is that once your home, you’re actually on your own. The attention turns on the next guy that’s still locked-up somewhere abroad,” he said.

Whelan had returned from a Russian labor camp, wrongfully detained for five years, seven months and five days on false espionage charges.

The government spent a few weeks checking his medical and psychological condition, then released him.

Whelan says he was not in great physical shape.

His former employer, BorgWarner, had dropped him as its director of global security after the first year he was detained by Russia.

That also meant losing his medical insurance at a crucial time for Whelan in the prison camp.

“I had a hernia that needed surgery and then I was unemployed. I didn’t have the means to pay for a private operation,” Whelan said, adding that Russia wouldn’t act until his case was dire. “I basically had to wait until I had to have emergency surgery.”

Back home in Michigan, Whelan needed some kind of immediate income.

But he found that since he had not had a job in Michigan recently, he did not qualify for unemployment.

“Because the laws were written so specifically, my situation falls outside the cookie cutter. I was working but I was working in a Russian labor camp. And apparently that doesn’t count,” he said.

A member of Congress had to contact Michigan’s Secretary of State just for Whelan to get a driver’s license and identification.

And being convicted of a crime in Russia, even a crime the U.S. government declared was bogus, created problems.

“When I applied for a renewal of my global entry card, which comes from Customs and Border patrol, I had a hard time with them,” Whelan said. “Because they kept focusing on the fact that, ‘You were arrested and you were imprisoned overseas.’ And I said, ‘Yeah and look at the pictures of the president meeting me at Andrews Air Force Base when I came back.

Strangest of all, he says, was when he tried to get full Medicaid coverage through the state.

“I had a letter back that said I didn’t qualify because I wasn’t a U.S. citizen. It makes you scratch your head, to be quite honest. How could somebody have sent that to me? But they did. And I said ‘You can just Google my name right now.’”

Whelan is actually a citizen of four countries.

He was born in Canada to parents who hailed from the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland. He moved to the U.S. as a child.

A law without funding

It’s not supposed to be that difficult for returning hostages.

Congress created the Robert Levinson Hostage Recovery and Hostage-Taking Accountability Act specifically to provide medical and other help to them and their families for five years after their release.

But it’s never been funded.

Michigan U.S. Rep. Haley Stevens says there’s a bipartisan effort to add that appropriation.

“We need to do that. That’s next phase. Someone like Paul Whelan, five and a half years taken from him, if he was wrongfully imprisoned in the United States he’d arguably get compensation. Paul Whelan right now is living off of a GoFundMe. And it’s unacceptable. And it’s wrong,” she said.

Stevens says the latest Defense reauthorization bill did include money to strengthen sanctions against countries who take hostages and help families who lobby for a loved one’s release.

Whelan helped lobby for those changes.

He says he’s also pressing for the Social Security Administration to cover retirement payments hostages lost while detained.

He’s talked with various government entities about the need for better communication among agencies dealing with wrongfully detained Americans.

Ironically, for someone falsely painted as an espionage agent, Whelan has even been a featured guest at the International Spy Museum in Washington, D.C.

He discussed his firsthand experience of dealing with Russian security forces and Moscow’s prison system.

Putting the puzzle pieces together

Paul Whelan scraped the last of his soup from a bowl on a modest table in the Manchester Diner, named for the small Michigan village about 60 miles away from Detroit.

Whelan lives there now with his elderly parents.

The former Marine said he’s contacted several organizations that help veterans.

But except for a bit of assistance from a Boston group affiliated with Harvard, the rest have turned him down because his captivity as a hostage was not related to his military service.

So Whelan said he is literally depending on the kindness of strangers in his community.

Auto dealers from the area offered him a leased vehicle.

Private practitioners have provided him with some medical and dental help.

Even the Manchester Diner’s owner, Leslie Kirkland, stopped by his table with a job tip, saying that one of her regular customers runs a cyber security company that might fit Whelan’s employment expertise.

“I’ll try to talk to him this weekend, I know he’ll come in for chicken waffles. I can see if he’s got something for you or he can put you in the right direction for something,” she said.

Whelan smiled and thanked her, then glanced at his phone, receiving a message from another former hostage, Mark Swidan, who was recently released by China.

He’s one of several detainees who Whelan says regularly text each other, seeking advice and encouragement.

“It’s a small community but we keep in touch,” he said. “Sort of like a group of misfit toys. Ha!”

Whelan said he’s also remained in contact with some still incarcerated at the Russian labor camp where he was held.

The prisoners use the kind of burner phones Whelan did when he talked surreptitiously with U.S. government officials, he said, though the phones aren’t technically allowed at the prison.

But, Whelan says, they are still easy to obtain with a cigarette slipped to the right guard or warden.

“We practice English. And I have family and friends in other countries that are helping to send over-the-counter medications and things into Russia to go to my friends in the camps. That’s helping keep them healthy,” he said.

Whelan is also keenly aware of his own physical, financial and emotional health.

“The reality is that when you get off the plane, you find that your former life isn’t there. The homes that we’ve left are not the homes that we come back to. It’s a process of putting puzzle pieces together yourself.”

–Paul Whelan

He remembers hearing that returning from a hostage situation is akin to having held your breath underwater, then suddenly rising to the surface and gasping for air.

“The reality is that when you get off the plane, you find that your former life isn’t there,” Whelan said. “The homes that we’ve left are not the homes that we come back to. It’s a process of putting puzzle pieces together yourself.”

Whelan wants to help the government develop new methods to support the next returning hostages.

Then, he says, maybe his over half-a-decade in the darkest corners of the Russian prison system will count for more than just time taken away from him.

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimates lawmakers cannot reach spending targets set in the recent budget proposal narrowly-passed by the U.S. House without cuts to the federal portion of Medicaid.

GOP members of Congress are searching for cost savings in order to pay for President Donald Trump’s tax cuts and border security agenda.

Concerns over potential cuts to the joint federal-state entitlement program, which provides medical coverage for roughly one out of every five Americans, sparked nationwide protests this week.

About 100 unionized health care workers and others who say they depend on Medicaid payments demonstrated outside the Warren office of Michigan Republican Congressman John James on Wednesday.

He wrote on X earlier this month that the GOP will always protect Medicaid.

James blamed Democrats for having spent years “burdening a system that will allow for its collapse,” while vowing to ensure Medicaid coverage for those who “rightfully paid into their benefits and our most vulnerable.”

But James’ Democratic colleague, Michigan Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, argues the GOP is still targeting Medicaid funding.

Tlaib said the threat is so strong it compelled her to take the rare step of joining the demonstration outside James’ office, in a Congressional district miles away from her own.

Listen: Michigan Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib says Medicaid cuts would ‘devastate’ families

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib: I’m here because Medicaid cuts would devastate so many of my families in my district. If John James could just join us and choose to help the families in the community he represents, the Macomb and Oakland County residents that rely on Medicaid. Especially parents with special needs kids and the huge number of mothers who depend on prenatal care through Medicaid. I’m here to urge him to choose the people that elected him, not Trump or Elon Musk. All of us will have his back if he chooses to do the right thing. We just need three to four Republicans to join us and we’re hoping that Congressman John James changes his mind and doesn’t cut Medicaid.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: What do you mean specifically by needing three or four Republicans to join you?

RT: It’s the difference between Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. House and Congress. The Republican majority is very small and we know that many of our Republican colleagues have constituents who depend on Medicaid, including one in California where over 60% of his residents rely on it. So this is not about Republicans or Democrats, it’s really an issue of access to health care coverage for those that are ill or those that have special medical conditions. John James’ district is one that would be hit very hard if Medicaid cuts were to go into effect. Yet he voted to approve the House Energy and Commerce Committee cutting $880 billion in costs over the next decade. That committee oversees health care, Medicare, Medicaid, the Affordable Care Act. He did it with no hesitation. We’re here to remind him this would actually devastate his community, not just communities like mine.

QK: There had been talk for a long time that politicians should stay away from entitlements, period. That wasn’t something you touched. But now, when Republicans say they’re trying to find cost savings and that there’s not many other places to look except entitlements, what is your reaction?

RT: Have they looked at the Pentagon budget, the Pentagon budget that hasn’t passed seven audits in a row? You’re talking about almost 15% of the federal budget coming from the Pentagon budget. The defense contractors, the military defense complex, has been draining our public tax dollars. If they can’t pass an audit, why didn’t you start there if you’re talking about efficiency? Why would you go to Medicaid and the Department of Education and so many of these vital, important services for our families? Without the food assistance, without Medicaid, without special education programs through our public education system, their lives would be devastated. You have folks that are gaslighting the public and saying that this is supposed to be some sort of cost-saving. It’s not. It’s them wanting to deteriorate any sort of public programs that help our families so they can privatize. And if you listen to the public, they would have told you, “Don’t touch Medicaid.” You promised not to touch it and you did. You voted for an almost $1 trillion cut to health coverage.

QK: You mentioned during your speech here that your phones have been blowing up with calls from people. After the recent stopgap funding measure was passed by Congress, there were some people who said they didn’t think Democrats were “standing up” enough against President Trump and the Republican majority. That Democrats should take other actions beyond what they’re doing right now. Again, what’s your reaction those kind of comments?

RT: I mean, I’m here. I’m doing everything I can, even if it means me having to join John James’ residents here or pushing back against billions of dollars in cuts for veterans’ health care in that so-called temporary budget, the Continuing Resolution. There’s health care coverage, there’s veterans care, there’s vital services that are literally on the chopping board within weeks of Trump becoming president. And this is not a choice that we should be giving Americans. We should be listening to them and understanding that if we really want to care for them, let’s figure out other ways. Let’s fix our health care system, if that’s really your true intention to find efficiency and waste. When we can organize our residents, transformative change comes from them. They can move the institution. We can put our organizing hats on, join our residents and try to give them a bullhorn. And that’s what we can do with the power of our letterhead, the power of our vote and the power to organize.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has issued about 300,000 recalls of cars in recent days, ranging from Kia to Mercedes.

The problems include faulty brakes, software errors and even potentially damaged engines.

But the nonprofit National Safety Council estimates that roughly one out of every five recalled vehicles are never repaired.

Council Program Manager Lonny Haschel told WDET that failing to address a recall can pose a hazard on the roadways.

In cases involving defective air bags, he says, delaying repairs could prove to be a deadly mistake.

Listen: Millions of Michigan drivers riding with danger after avoiding recall repairs

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Lonny Haschel, Program Manager, National Safety Council: Nationwide, our partners at Carfax estimate there are over 57 million vehicles with open safety recalls.  And in Michigan there’s over 1.5 million vehicles with open safety recall. So about one out of every five cars you see on the road or in the parking lot have an open recall of some type.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: And in the Council’s view, that could create dangers for everyone driving on a roadway?

LH: It certainly can. What happens is sometimes people do their own risk assessment. They can learn about a recall from our website, for example, CheckToProtect.org. You can go there, enter your license plate or your vehicle identification number, or you can take a picture of either one and upload it. It’ll tell you if there’s a recall. People may see something like a “canister purge valve,” which to me, that means absolutely nothing. But when the mechanics and the professionals at the dealership start looking at that, it actually can cause a fuel tank to collapse on itself and cause the vehicle to stall or not start again. If you’re out on the Interstate in the afternoon rush hour and you’re in that left lane, that can be a huge safety issue. So we want to make sure that folks are being proactive about their own safety.

QK: Does an owner typically get notified if there’s a recall? Or is it on them to search out the information and find whether their vehicle is under a recall order or not?

LH: If you own a new vehicle, you’re going to have a relationship with the dealership and the manufacturer knows you have that car. If you are like me, who a lot of Americans are, the average age of cars people own in the United States right now is 11 years old. I drive a 15-year-old pickup truck. I’m the fourth owner of that thing. So the manufacturer may not know I have it. If you’re a new car owner, you’re going to absolutely get a notification letter. Many people receive a letter for a vehicle they don’t even own anymore, because it takes a while for that to catch up. Again, by being proactive, going to CheckToProtect.org, you don’t have to sit around and wait on a letter when there could be a safety risk for you or your family. If they hear that their vehicle type might be involved in a recall, they should search it out themselves.

QK: So they should take the initiative?

LH: We work with a lot of drivers’ education programs across the country. We’re trying to instill in everybody that this is a part of regular maintenance. You check your oil, you check your brakes, your windshield wipers, you get your oil changed. You should also take a few minutes and go to CheckToProtect.org to see if maybe there was a recall issued on your car in the three, six months, or whenever it was between oil changes. Because it could happen at any time.

“We’re trying to instill that [checking for recalls] is a part of regular maintenance.” 

–Lonny Haschel, Program Manager, National Safety Council

QK: Typically recall announcements say bring the vehicle in and it will be fixed at the dealers’ expense. But if you are the second, third, fourth owner of the vehicle, can you still have the recalled part fixed at no cost?

LH: The recall repair is absolutely free, regardless of who’s driving it. Let’s say Aunt Susie let you drive her pickup truck because she didn’t need it and you’ve had it for about a year and a half. You can check yourself if the vehicle’s under a recall, even if you don’t necessarily have a relationship with a dealer because it’s your aunt’s car or truck. On our website, if it shows there’s a recall, we have a “Find a Dealer” button so we can connect you with a dealership to set up an appointment and get that repair done for free, regardless if you’re the owner or not.

QK: Does that recall cost-covering ever expire if the vehicle is no longer under warranty?

LH: Even if the vehicle is out of that warranty time frame, if there is a safety recall it will be repaired for free.

QK: When you talk to drivers, owners, et cetera, what kind of reasons do you hear for why they don’t get a recalled vehicle repaired?

LH: A lot of times they just didn’t know it was free. Sometimes we get younger drivers we partner with, like some in the U.S. military, for example, who’ve never been exposed to a vehicle recall because their parent or caregiver always took care of that. They didn’t have to deal with a vehicle safety recall until they bought their first car in their mid to late 20s. So it is a simple lack of awareness. Sometimes they say that it doesn’t seem important because my car is running fine right now… But it’s not a problem until it’s a problem. We want people to get things fixed before anything happens. It is truly a safety issue for both everyone in that vehicle and those on the roadway around them.

In Michigan, 1.5 million vehicles have been recalled but not yet repaired. That includes over 150,00 with Takata airbags. Back 10 years ago, there were more than 60 million of those vehicles recalled because the inflator can come apart and send pieces of metal through the passenger compartment.  There’s been over 400 people injured and over 20 that lost their lives due to this. Some of those vehicles with Takata air bags are under a “Do not drive” warning. If you go to CheckToProtect.org and you see that pull up, it’ll have a warning on there that you’re not supposed to drive the vehicle. You need to call the dealership. Either they will repair it on site or sometimes they’ll send a tow truck out to get it. It’s that serious.

The Detroit Lions took the first major step in renewing the chase for a Super Bowl trophy this weekend. The team evaluated the latest crop of draft-eligible college talent at the annual NFL Combine.

Players ran through drills and testing to measure their size, speed and strength, while football executives and media alike tried to get a sense of the NFL hopefuls’ character.

Those examining the players included journalist Justin Rogers, founder of the independent publication the Detroit Football Network, which is dedicated solely to covering the Lions. From the combine site in Indianapolis, Rogers says this is the chance for the Lions to decide who could fill the holes in an already solid Detroit roster.

Listen: Lions prowl for new college talent at NFL Combine

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Justin Rogers, Detroit Football Network: They do have several areas of need, both short and long term. I think probably the most pressing is the defensive line. That really pertains to both the edge rushing position opposite Aiden Hutchinson and the defensive tackle position.

When you look at this draft, the Lions are selecting very late in the first round, 28th overall. That creates a ton of variables in terms of what the teams select ahead of you. And your ability to trade up and trade down is a little bit more fluid and easier, as we saw last year with them trading up for Terrion Arnold.

If I was to speculate at this very early stage before free agency takes place and they modify their roster through that means, I think there’s a real high likelihood they do address the defensive line. But the beauty of selecting so late is having that flexibility to go any number of directions. They really can choose the best player available regardless of position, because of the depth of their overall roster.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: There were so many injuries with the defense in particular last year. Do the Lions need just to add depth to that part of the roster, or do they really need to find some kind of a true star difference-maker?

JR: I think you always are looking for stars. But it’s so much easier said than done. There’s a level of projection within that.

The easier thing to do is add depth with high-quality players that have the potential to develop into starters. You’re not likely to have the guaranteed odds of finding a star-caliber player with the 28th pick.

And you look at the injury situation from last season, in many ways it was completely an anomaly. You don’t have that many injuries typically. You certainly don’t have that many injuries on one side of the ball. I don’t think you want to overreact to that, because that is not a situation that is likely to replicate.

You always want depth in a NFL roster. And I think that’s one of the really great characteristics of their current General Manager Brad Holmes. He understands that and seems to constantly be thinking about being prepared for that. It’s why they were able to sustain their play at such a high level last year. Obviously it didn’t end the way people wanted with the playoff loss. But the team won 15 games despite all those injuries. I think that’s a remarkable feat that’s lost because of the way that their season finished.

QK: You talk about overreacting. There were many people, many experts, saying the Lions had a good shot at a Super Bowl last year. And then they had the horrid loss in the first round of the playoffs. You’ve talked to so many players and people in the front office. Do you think that playoff loss will that change anything in their approach to how they build a roster through the draft or elsewhere?

JR: No, I don’t. I think they look at the way they’ve built thus far. Since the current front office has been in place, this team has gone from 3 wins to 9 wins to 11 wins to 15 wins. They have built in a very successful manner.

It is, I think, sustainable, because a lot of their talent is young. They’re doing a really nice job of locking them up to long-term contracts and keeping that foundation in place.

That playoff loss, it was terrible, it was unexpected, it was disappointing. But if you take the longer view you see finally all those injuries caught up to them. They were missing Aiden Hutchinson, arguably the Defensive Player of the Year, had he stayed healthy. They were missing a starting defensive tackle and a starting cornerback. They lost another starting cornerback in the first couple minutes of that playoff game. They were missing a starting linebacker. I mean, they were just missing starters all over the place. And for as much as they were able to kind of keep it together with duct tape and rubber cement through the course of the year, it did catch up to them.

So now they’re going to come back in 2025 and presumably have most, if not all, of those pieces back healthy. And you just expect it to not fall apart like it did last year. There’s always going to be injuries in football. It’s a violent game, it’s just a natural part of it. But to have them to that degree, it’s unlikely to happen again. So you take what you have, add some pieces to it and try to build continually, as you have through the last four years.

QK: Both Detroit’s offensive and defensive coordinators left for head coaching jobs. Losing even one of those people that run one side or the other of the ball could be a bit rough for a lot of teams. Now, you have two new coordinators coming in. Do you see the team adopting a different kind of scheme or looking for a different kind of player in the draft than the Lions have taken recently?

JR: That’s a really good question. A really big point about this is that Head Coach Dan Campbell, as he was replacing those two coordinators, was maintaining a level of continuity.

On the defensive side, they promoted Kelvin Sheppard. He’s been here for the duration of this regime the past four years. He was specifically groomed to be this replacement for the last two seasons. So I don’t expect a whole lot of change schematically there. Everybody sees things just a touch different, so there will be some minor tweaks. But in terms of the grand scheme of things, I think it’ll be very similar.

Offensively they did the same thing. They did bring in an outsider in John Morton. But he’s an outsider that had been with Detroit before. He was here in 2022 and that was a really important year, because that was Ben Johnson’s first year as offensive coordinator, when he was implementing and installing and building-out his offensive scheme. John Morton was kind of a background figure then as a senior offensive assistant. But the word is he had a really, really big role in shaping and implementing things, working directly with quarterback Jared Goff. They brought him back to kind of maintain the continuity of the thing. You look at their offense, the pieces that they have, it would be really, really difficult to screw it up. It just would.

And the beauty of it is, they’re not selecting in the top 10, as many people have gotten used to them doing over the years because they’ve been so bad. You don’t need to have that great player staring you in the face at the very top of the draft. You have the ability to sit there and wait. Your first pick is number 28, you are picking kind of in the heart of the middle of the draft, where these so-called experts believe the depth of the draft is. I think there’s a really nice potential for them to get two, possibly three players that can contribute in spots where they could really use some help as soon as next year.

The Trump administration is issuing a “stop work” order to agencies who provide legal help for unaccompanied immigrant children.

That affects about 26,000 kids nationwide, roughly 800 of them in Michigan.

Some critics say the government-funded legal representation makes it more appealing for children to enter the U.S. illegally.

But the nonprofit Michigan Immigrant Rights Center counters that some of the kids were relocated from Afghanistan or simply fled from dangerous situations in other countries.

The center’s Elinor Jordan says these children often have few options when they face an immigration judge. Jordan spoke with WDET about the stop work order and the ripple effect it will have.

Listen: Michigan group says Trump’s ‘Stop all work’ order puts migrant children at risk

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Elinor Jordan, Michigan Immigrant Rights Center: The bottom line is that this will mean children will be forced to represent themselves in court. This program helps these children reunite with caregivers, helps them access legal protection, helps them seek out protections that are available to trafficking survivors and abuse survivors. And because we’re so specialized, we’re able to provide advocates who are not only legal experts in some of these very complex areas of law but also have the ability to provide the services in a child-centered way. Sometimes that means helping a child understand the concept of a country and a border in the first place. Sometimes that means working with them to identify a stuffed animal that might help them remain calm while they’re being cross-examined. Sometimes that means helping them understand different processes by using cartoon characters to help them see what it looks like. These children shouldn’t be left alone to do this for themselves.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: In your view, is that even possible for children to represent themselves? Especially if they are at a very young age?

EJ: Absolutely not. And unlike in criminal court, in immigration court you’re not provided a lawyer if you can’t afford one. This means individuals must represent themselves, even in what the Supreme Court has identified as some of the most complicated areas of law. It’s challenging enough for adults, let alone children.

QK: Are these children being held somewhere? Are they incarcerated, typically, or are they with families?

EJ: There’s a mix of those. The legal protections that are in the Trafficking Victims Protection and Reauthorization Act require that children be held in the least restrictive setting possible. Sometimes part of our advocacy is ensuring that is the case. And there have been times when part of our advocacy is to ensure that children who have been victimized while being held by the government are able to access the protections they need to heal from sexual abuse while in custody. Part of our role is also to help them reunify with the people that make them feel safest. Maybe it’s a parent, maybe it’s a family member or a community member. But the numbers really bear out that children who are represented by an attorney are able to stay engaged in the legal process and pursue the relief that they’re lawfully eligible for. About 94% of represented children attend their immigration court hearings. So this really supports the process going more smoothly.

QK: Are these typically children that have been in the U.S. for a while or people that have come in more recently?

EJ: At times there are children who have been in the United States and experienced abuse, neglect or something similar. The majority of the children have been encountered near a U.S. border and have been unaccompanied, without any parent or legal guardian, and are placed in the care and custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement. Some of our work has really been instrumental in reuniting separated families. For example, during the child separation crisis in 2018 we were able to reunify all children who were moved into Michigan after being separated from their parents. That includes a child who was only 10 months old, who was actually the youngest child known to be separated from their parents. Being able to reunite them and stand in that breach is such an honor and something that really must continue to prevent some of the cruelest outcomes in this system.

QK: Your group and all the nonprofits involved were ordered to “stop all work.” But this basically means that they’re freezing the federal funding, right? Are you able to continue on with private funding?

“[The stop all work order puts] us in a very challenging position. It could impact about 80% of our total funding.”

–Elinor Jordan, attorney, Michigan Immigrant Rights Center

EJ: At the moment we are dipping into small reserves of private funding. We are doing our best because we not only have legal obligations but also ethical obligations as attorneys to continue representing our clients. Once we’ve filed paperwork with the court, we can’t simply say, “Oh, I’m not getting paid any longer. I won’t be able to do this.” We will do everything that we possibly can to see that ethical obligation through and uphold the best possible services for our clients. But it does put us in a very challenging position. It could impact about 80% of our total funding.

QK: The Trump administration had charged that the previous Biden administration did not track or protect undocumented children in the U.S, so big changes were necessary to protect migrant children. What’s your view of how this “stop all work” order is going to affect that situation?

EJ: Well, many experts agree that a lawyer is one of the most important protections to avoid children falling through the cracks of the system. We have often intervened to help children who experience abuses while in custody come forward to law enforcement when that occurs. We have often helped address housing needs that come up if they are in a dangerous situation. A lawyer is one of the most critical things to really connect the dots between the various systems that want to prevent abuse of children. Taking away their attorney takes away their voice and allows them to be trafficked, harmed and really intimidated by threats that may or may not have any legal bearing. One of the most common ways that traffickers exert power over their targets is by using fear about the immigration system to intimidate them into silence and prevent them from coming forward to officials. So, taking away a child’s lawyer strengthens the hand of a trafficker.